Stages: Margaret

On this week's episode of Delirium we talk with student doctor Margaret, the day before her first day of medical school! We talk about her inspiration and the goals she has for the next four years and her career moving forward. We also discuss how her generation of doctors are changing the landscape of modern medicine.


Welcome to our shift y'all!

Follow Margaret on LinkedIn at @Margaret Darko, Instagram at @MVDARKO, and Twitter @DaktarDarko!

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Guest: Margaret Darko
Host: Dr. Victoria Kyerematen
#meded #premed #medicalschool

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Transcript

VICTORIA (00:06):

Hey, y'all welcome to night shift delirium, a podcast about junior doctors and the world that surrounds them. I'm your host Victoria, a junior doctor based in England. On today's episode, we have our youngest guest yet, student Dr. Margaret. We spoke with Margaret the day before she started medical school about her inspiration hopes and dreams for her career. It was refreshing to hear from the next generation of doctors. And I'm sure you all will enjoy just as much as I did. Welcome to our shift, y'all.

VICTORIA (00:39):

Welcome to night shift delirium. Today, we are talking with Margaret as a part of our stages series. I'm really excited. We haven't really spoken to anyone at her level in medicine. She's our first student doctor. She will be starting a medical school tomorrow. So before we begin, Margaret, do you want to introduce yourself?

MARGARET  (01:05):

Um, thanks for having me on the show, Victoria. So I'm Margaret, as she said, I'm an Ms one now and I'm starting school at Weill Cornell medical college in New York city. I went to duke university for undergrad. I took two gap years. And if you can tell from my accent, I'm Ghanaian and Victoria is someone I know very personally,

VICTORIA (01:36):

Very personally, indeed. Um, yeah, Margaret is my relative. Yeah, I know. It's shocking.

MARGARET  (01:48):

Wow.

VICTORIA (01:50):

Okay. Margaret. So you went to Duke, you took a couple of gap years, but why medicine? How did you end up where you are today?

MARGARET  (02:00):

So, um, the short answer is that I really tried to run away from medicine, but each time it called me back, it pulled me in and it got to a point where I decided to give in to the fact that this is for me. And the long answer was basically that I realized that I've been surrounded by a lot of health problems, not personally, but my family or family, friends had different medical issues. So naturally the hospital didn't scare me. I gravitated towards science. You know, I did well in my STEM classes when I was growing up. So I think slowly but surely people were nudging me in that direction. I say two people who were really pushing me in that direction, who happened to be doctors now are the host of this show. And, my other cousin, who's also a doctor. And, I think that when you have these influences in your life, you eventually lean towards that kind of path.

MARGARET  (03:05):

But yeah, I think medicine, eventually I came to realize that I liked medicine for the versatility that it gives. You know, there's a lot of creativity involved. I think that's what people mix up or are a bit confused about is that medicine isn't just about sciences or like cells and I don't know, chemical reactions. It's not, that it's really looking at a problem and thinking of different ways to fix it because you have to keep learning all the time till you retire after you retire. So that was very, you know, challenged and, and um, my friends know that I like a challenge, so I just like to prove people wrong. So I don't know. So yeah, I'm here, I'm here now.

VICTORIA (03:51):

I mean, I must say I'm obviously very excited about the fact that, you know, I always say I ended up in medicine through successful brainwashing and it's only right that I pass the Baton on to, you know, the next generation.

MARGARET  (04:11):

Funny.

VICTORIA (04:13):

Um, okay. Well, I mean, you've kind of already answered my next question, but it was, do you have any role models or people who inspired you to pursue medicine or even importantly, people who have given you an idea of the kind of doctor that you want to be?

MARGARET  (04:28):

Yeah, that's a good question. I think that obviously the first doctor and he was my uncle and then my cousin became a doctor and she used to take me to the hospital, like when I was on breaks and things. And then obviously Victoria became a doctor. So these are the closest family members I have that, uh, doctors. But, um, in terms of like being inspired to come back to medicine, I think it was seeing female doctors. I ended up doing my thesis on female physicians and I think it really made me appreciate being a minority in medicine and, you know, like being black and female alone, it's like double trouble. So just seeing, you know, all these super women being able to do it was just this beautiful story to me. And I think a part of me wants it to, you know, become that superhero myself. So I don't have any, I don't want to say I have this specific person, but I always look out for female physicians. I think that women have supported me so much in my life. And, um, yeah, it's made me woman. That's why I'm in medicine.

VICTORIA (05:41):

I love that. That's really interesting. I never knew that. And you know, it is so true because when you are a junior or like a student and you see these like powerhouses, yes. Women in general tend to like occupy that space where, and it's, I'm not saying that men don't occupy that same sort of energy, but it's a lot less special if we're honest, you know? Um, because that is just the default for men in many ways. So when you see these powerhouses who are in medicine there, it's very rare for you to come across a woman and especially a black woman who is not like who doesn't have a presence and an aura that you're like, oh my gosh, she knows her stuff. She's on point. And you know, obviously I think that's in many ways a consequence of a society that says you have to be three times as good as, you know, the white male, but, um, it is inspiring. And I love that. I didn't know that about you.

MARGARET  (06:44):

I mean, I think it's interesting that, you know, you bring up the powerhouse, you know, this woman, this macho woman, you know, who has it all, um, in relation to the white man, because I actually worked...I've worked In the past, um, in a space that had a white man and a woman of color, both the doctors and it was still inspiring because she, even though she wasn't the typical powerhouse, she wasn't really on point in that sense. You know, she wasn't an all-rounder, she was very vocal about her struggles, um, getting into med school, getting into residency, all of that. But I think is the resilience that did it for me , it's the resilience for me. And I think that's something and doing it with confidence, you know, just taking in the struggle with confidence and keep like being able to push despite all these obstacles and being told no over and over again. Um, and I think her resilience is something that showed me that, you know, that's another aspect of women in medicine that really appeals to me because you don't have to be boisterous or overly confident or have a great personality cause she wasn't that, but she definitely really had the resilience. And I think that being resilient allowed her to be adaptable and that really propelled her through to wherever she is now.

VICTORIA (08:20):

Yes, absolutely. And you know, I will say when, when I say, when I speak about powerhouses, I, I think of vulnerability as one of the most important parts of being a powerhouse and like being on top of your stuff, because there's so much strength in that. And I think sometimes people feel they have to be perfect or they have to have the most linear journey or the most, um, I don't know, top of their class and this and that. And that's really not what is required to be a good doctor. In fact, in many ways, not having those things makes you the better because you've seen the struggle you've gone, you know, you can empathize more, you have a little bit more life experience not to say that those other people don't have those things, but in general, um, you know, a powerhouse definitely feels and struggles and fights. And it's exactly what you said. The resilience is what makes the difference. So, you know, you're starting orientation tomorrow. How are you feeling right now about that?

MARGARET  (09:23):

Um, I'm exhausted. I'm very exhausted. Um, and I think that I'm very grateful, but I'm also exhausted. Thankfully I'm not scared to start school. I don't really have the anxiety or maybe I'm just saying that now, because actually I haven't started, but I, yeah, I'm, I'm just tired. I'm trying to prepare myself mentally to start because it takes a lot to move in.

VICTORIA (09:52):

Yeah. You have also just moved into your new, um, place of residence, which has been an experience. Um, so, but like in terms of, do you feel like, you know, what finally this is happening or does it just kind of feel like another day?

MARGARET  (10:11):

Um, let me just backtrack to like a week ago or two weeks ago when my school finally started sending us information, um, I think that when those emails started coming in, it really did feel like, well, it's actually happened. It's it's finally starting, you know, it's like, everything happens so quickly. So, so quickly, no, you, you apply to school, you pick your schools, you know, you wait, you'd keep waiting and waiting and waiting and it's okay now you're done with it. So you have somewhere to go to, but then it hits you say, okay, this is actually starting. My life is going to be different. You know, things are changing. I am going back to school. Um, obviously people who care about you will try and sympathize by commenting and you know, people are like, oh, you're a different, you're going to be a different person or a while. You're not going to have enough free time or, you know, just basically everyone is throwing their visions at you. You know, it's like, what do you call those things? It's like a fast shooter and yeah, all of that is overwhelming, you know, the comments, the suggestions, but I'm just taking it one day at a time to see where we go.

VICTORIA (11:36):

Yeah. And you know, we actually, haven't really spoken very much about your undergrad and your gap year. Um, can you tell us just very quickly sort of what your undergrad was in and how it prepared you for medical school, for the people who are listening and who aren't familiar with? The difference between UK, us, we spoken about it at great length, many times in the U S you have to complete a bachelor's degree and take a series of what we call pre-med courses, which includes chemistry, biology, physics, a math course, and like a biochemistry course or something like that. So you can major in anything and some places allow you to have even more freedom with your degree, which I think is quite unique. So can you tell us about your experience at duke?

MARGARET  (12:32):

Yeah. Um, so I ended up creating my own major at Duke and Duke a program called program II. And you basically apply for it. You put together a proposal, um, to defend your proposed major basically. And so I initially, let me actually backtrack. So I was the kind of student that came in freshman year that I just wanted to do biology if I'm trying to feel special, I'll throw in a global health because after all, um, yeah, I'm an international student non-international student. So let me just do that to be different or feel special. And then, what started as a joke, me actually laughing as someone who wanted to create their own major and ended up inspiring me to do my own major. Cause she basically threw the question back at me. Okay. So what will you do? And then I gave my, um, elevator pitch and she was like, I think you should actually do this because it came to you so easy.

MARGARET  (13:40):

So then I started looking into it. I wanted to combine things that I liked, which was like arts, but also health. And it involved a lot of research, but I put some stuff together. I found people who were willing to help me and Duke made it a possible. So that was it, but it was such a great experience. The flexibility is so key to, you know, training your mind and train yourself to become a lifelong learner because you're actively doing things you would take in charge of the knowledge that you consume. You know, the information that you put out into the world, you know, it's no longer about just like someone is teaching you. You're the one who has to teach other people. Um, so luckily for me, I was able to do like sciences looking at like neuro neuroscience and psychology looking at how like the arts and creativity impacts the brain and body.

MARGARET  (14:40):

And then also looking at like the humanities and social sciences, you know, how are we using creativity in like the healthcare ecosystem, the business world of health care, you know, are they using certain colors? What's the language that they're using to, you know, big farmers using to get people, to buy certain drugs, you know, things like that. So it was just very interesting. I was learning so much. I didn't feel like... I liked all my classes, you know, but I still had to take my pre-med classes, just FYI. But those additional classes were like my refuge because I chose those classes that I wanted to, you know, be in them. I wanted to learn from them. And I think it was very helpful in my medical school application process, because I could speak to certain things that even on the people who were interviewing me had never heard of, but what's still relevant to medicine. But if you have the opportunity to do an individualized major and you're passionate about something, please do it like is the best thing you can do for yourself.

VICTORIA (15:49):

Yeah. Your undergraduate experience is so impressive. And I know a lot of people say those things and throw a lot of accolades, but it really is very unique to find young people who are able to guide their own like career and really can, like, we all have interests in things, but how many people actually like put pen to paper and apply it towards something like an entire degree. So I think it's really, really interesting.

VICTORIA (16:20):

Red flags of med school.

VICTORIA (16:23):

Honestly, the material wasn't that difficult to understand,

VICTORIA (16:28):

Listen, you're in medical school, the information is more detailed than it's ever been. It's not meant to be easy, make sure you know, and understand at the level of detail that is required before moving on to the next topic

VICTORIA (16:45):

I heard whichever class, our professor isn't that tough.

VICTORIA (16:50):

The biggest mistake you can make in medical school and really in medicine overall is to rely on someone else's assessment, go to class or your rotation with an open mind and be ready for your own unique impression.

VICTORIA (17:05):

I literally haven't studied at all,

VICTORIA (17:08):

Ring the alarm, the biggest red flag of them, all medics notoriously, understate, how much they study and prepare. I'm unclear why maybe it has to do with years of fighting the titles of being a nerd or book long. As some saying, either way, don't get caught up in this fallacy and get left behind. Also don't put forth this tired rhetoric you are in medical school one day sooner than you realize someone will expect you to save their life. You should be proud of the work it takes to acquire that knowledge. Trust me, no one wants the colleague or a physician who never studied at all.

VICTORIA (17:58):

Okay. So what does it mean to be a doctor to you?

MARGARET  (18:05):

Ooh. Okay. So I was recently in Ghana and I had to deal with the healthcare system a lot and I think it really helped me to define, I think actually wrote it down in my journal. What kind of doctor I want to be? And I realized that a doctor should make people feel good about themselves. They should feel good and your patient should leave you feeling good, even if their disease, um, remains, or even if, you know, they're still dealing with some kind of adversity, they should feel better leaving you. Um, and I think that that's something that many healthcare spaces lack because it becomes maybe about the treatment of disease, you know, team member, disease, them just alleviate the illness, let me alleviate the symptoms as opposed to how is this person's overall being before and after they came to me. And so I think for me, a doctor, someone who should positively influence or impact their patient's well being, you know, and that can, that's a huge range. It can literally how they feeling physically, emotionally, mentally, but there needs to be that change. You know, someone shouldn't come to you so much, it didn't leave you worse than they came.

VICTORIA (19:29):

Very, very good. I hope that you keep that with you, you know, that idea about goals of treatment and goals of your care. Even more importantly than goals of treatment in an episode that will come out. I had a, an interview with, um, Dorothy and we were speaking about grief and we're speaking about what it means to be a doctor. And, and for me, how it, how it has affected me is I really want to make sure that patients have an understanding of what that is. And it goes towards the idea of you have more patient satisfaction, you have more family satisfaction and, you know, that's what everyone says when they're talking about collaborative care between the patient and between the doctor. But, you know, I look at medicine now as my goal of treatment and my goal of care is to optimize a patient's life, to the best of my ability and the best of their, their vessel, their body's ability, you know? And, um, we just don't think about the holistic care. We get run down with lists of, to do's and you know, it's so easy to forget that, but I think if you keep those sort of principles with you, you know, you'll go far. So what are you looking forward to the most in medical school?

MARGARET  (21:02):

Um, honestly I think this, this might be too nerdy or like too school focused, but I think just finding my own flow and finding out what works for me early, um, cause I know that can really avoid a lot of stress, you know, cause it's such a huge learning curve, but eventually you figure it out, but are you figuring it out third year or you're figuring it out at the end of first semester and I'm praying that I can, you know, figure what works for me quickly. So maybe like right now, like that's what I'm thinking of. Um, but besides that, I think also too, just finding that specialty that calls me, you know, like this is just, long-term finally, like I wanted to choose me. I have some things in mind, but I want it to choose me.

VICTORIA (21:59):

Okay, fair enough. And you know, you're whatever works for you, what works in, you know, biochemistry might not work in, I don't know, neurology, you know, and it is really a never ending, um, journey and figuring out what works for you and for what particular task. But you are up to it, obviously you wouldn't be there if you weren't. Um, what are you looking? What are you least looking forward to? I should say,

MARGARET  (22:29):

I think the time sacrifice, meaning like knowing that I'm, I'll have to miss out on some things.

VICTORIA (22:39):

Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's the reality. You've seen it so many times. Um, okay. So even speaking in your, in terms of your major, there's such a distinct difference between like my generation and your generation and the opportunities that you have and generations prior who only could do biology. You know, when I was in college, it was a big deal that I was doing psych and global health and people didn't understand that, which obviously it became an asset later on, but now your generation, you know, some universities are allowing you to design your own thing. And I think your generation in general is more vocal, which might be because of, you know, tiktok and Twitter and all these things, you know, everyone has a page and I don't know. How do you think that is going to affect medicine in the future? If at all?

MARGARET  (23:40):

Yeah, no, it's, I, I think it's already, um, impacting the field positively already, you know, because we're thinking outside the box, I think that the openness to discuss has even brought visibility to aspects of medicine like mental health, um, and even using mental health. As an example, it's is so subjective that you need to constantly think differently. Think creatively, you really need to, you really need all hands on deck, you know? And, um, and I think medicine is no longer isolated. And so you need people who know how to relate to other fields because whether or not we like it, medicine is a business, whether or not we like it. Medicine is a social ecosystem, you know, and it intricately intertwines with politics or economics and sociology, just all of these things, you know, history. Um, and so I think many schools have realized that it is in their best interest. Should they want to maintain their reputation, to find more students who are willing to think outside the box or who are willing to take chances? Um, what, at least that's what it seemed during my interview. Some of my interview days, like that's what schools were looking, looking out for, um, because the world is changing and you have to keep up. So I feel like med med, schools, hospitals, all these different health spaces, everyone is just trying to stay relevant and keep up and also just shine.

VICTORIA (25:35):

I definitely agree with you. And I think also your generation is really connecting with people in a way that previous generations have not. And not that you know, there hasn't been improvement from 1950 till now, but even looking online, you know, people are trying to find different ways to stand out and make their, you know, Instagram presence a thing. But then they're explaining things, you know, people now who don't have access to healthcare or don't trust healthcare, but trust social media and other issues, you know, they're now seeing actual doctors instead of someone in their basement, you know? So I think that's, I think it's a good thing. I'm excited to see where it goes.

MARGARET  (26:17):

I think so. I think one, one more thing that is so crucial is that, um, people want to relate to the people that taking care of them. And if, you know, back in the day, it was just like, it's the same type of person, that same type of person, but people don't just want you to, you know, you know, give me a shot or just tell me, Gwen, take these pills. They want to have a conversation. They want you to really understand their life experiences. And I think, um, it's really, I think patients also voicing out, um, their concerns and frustrations, and this is seen in different ways through protests, lobbying in Congress and things, you know, like everyone has seen that patients have power and the patients are demanding for a diverse set of health workers. So I think it's really, that's one thing that's really pushed medicine into, you know, a different trajectory that I hope people will keep embracing, but people have negative things to say about where medicine is going. So we'll see.

VICTORIA (27:30):

Yes, we will. And I think there's always going to be a hater and, you know, anyway, just let them deal with that. Um, okay. Well, Margaret, you know, I'm not going to keep you too long because I know that tomorrow is the start of a big day. Although obviously as many things as people have put on to you, you're doing the right thing. One step at a time. You'll be fine. My last question for you... Season two is seemingly more of a musical season. So give me your theme song for this moment. For tomorrow. You're walking into orientation, this gorgeous girl, student, Dr. Margaret, what is your theme song?

MARGARET  (28:23):

Wow. Um, I mean, you really caught me off guard. Let me just go through my Spotify real quick and see what I can find, you know, I'm trying to decide, should I go with gospel? Should I go Afro beats? Should I go with like, um, uh, Jazmine Sullivan kind of situation? Okay. Noah, I don't think this will be like my real answer if I had like two days to really take my time, but this Ghanian Olympian actually used it as like her mantra and I think was perfect and I'm tapping into her energy. So I will say "we're taking over by Shatta Wale". Yeah,

VICTORIA (29:12):

Yeah. [inaudible] love that. Yeah.

MARGARET  (29:21):

Yeah. And, and, and I think that I'll choose that because sometimes it's very, you really have to psych yourself up, you know, it's very easy to doubt yourself if you can sense other people's doubts in Yuba, you really have to, to so that I know I'm good. I know, like I can do this and yeah, I think that helped me for my second application.

VICTORIA (29:43):

Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. Um, do you have any social media that you want people to follow you on?

MARGARET  (29:52):

Um, yeah. So you can follow me on LinkedIn. That's where you learn about me when I'm with medicine and it's just my name Margaret dot-com or Darko for spelling purposes. Yeah. If you want to see my creative side too, you can follow me on Instagram at M V Darko. Those are my two main social medias. Oh, you can follow my Twitter too. That's very medicine heavy. And it's at doctor Darko, D a K T a R Darko.

VICTORIA (30:28):

Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us on night shift delirium.

MARGARET  (30:32):

Thanks so much for having me. This is such an amazing show and I know it's inspiring a lot of people out there, and I'm very excited for this, you know, brand and you know, all these different things that are yet to come. So I'm looking forward to it.

VICTORIA (30:53):

Well, thank you so much, Margaret.

VICTORIA (30:58):

I hope you all enjoyed this episode and learn from Margaret's unique perspective. I certainly did. If you are enjoying delirium so far, please share like, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, follow Margaret's on LinkedIn at Margaret Darko for spelling purposes on Instagram, at MV Darko and on Twitter at Dr. Darko, all of her handles will be in the show notes, follow delirium on Instagram at night shifts, delirium, and on Twitter at delirium shift. Our next episode will be focused on the intersection of grief and medicine as I'm joined in conversation by Dorothy, if you're interested in getting merchandise, some t-shirts from the first drop still do remain. So please go to Amissascloset.com a M I S S a S C L O S E t.com to get yours, see you on our next shift.

MARGARET  (32:02):

Let me just tap myself on the back and just get ready for tomorrow. That's why just orientation. That's the only thing.

VICTORIA (32:16):

Yes. The theme is stages.

MARGARET  (32:20):

Just so I know what to give...

Guest: Margaret Darko
Host. Dr. Victoria Kyerematen

#premed #medschool #m1 #dukeprogramII #residency