Duality: Nadja

In this week's episode of Delirium, we continue our Duality series, with Senior House Officer, Nadja. We talk about her journey from Hong Kong to England, life as a professional hobbyist, and how our COVID experiences have informed our new career goals.

Stream wherever you listen to podcasts and follow Nadja's foodie account @MadeByNadja.

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Transcript

Victoria (00:00):

Hey y'all, welcome to Night Shift Delirium

Victoria (00:11):

A podcast about junior doctors and the world that surrounds them. I'm your host Victoria, a junior doctor based in England and on today's episode, we're continuing our duality series with Nadja. Nadja is a senior house officer who has recently completed her foundation year program. We're looking at her interests outside of medicine, which don't exactly fit into the traditional roles and her role. As a doctor, we're going to discuss all of the things that have led her to a slight pivot in her career. Welcome to our shift. Y'all

Victoria (00:51):

Welcome to Night Shift Delirium today we have, Nadja who will be joining us, and we're going to be talking about the duality of life and of medicine and healthcare. Do you want to give us a brief introduction about who you are? Oh, and I'll just say I do sound a little bit sicky because I have a little bit of a cold, but I'm fine. And it's not COVID

Nadja (01:17):

Thank you so much for having me. It's such a treat to be here and I'm sorry that you're not feeling a hundred percent. I feel terrible making the talk this much. Um, my name is Nadia. I am a junior doctor and I work with Victoria and we are literally three weeks away actually from finishing year two of all foundation training. So lots of exciting things ahead.

Victoria (01:38):

Yes, yes, yes. Um, I guess for people who don't listen regularly, foundation training is basically the first part of your training in the UK. It's two years from that point on, we become sort of a core trainee senior house officer for however many years you want until you go into specialist training, which takes another million years. So it's one stop in a very, very long journey, but I think an important first sort of stop. So I guess before we get into everything, tell us a little bit about your medical journey. What led you to where you are now?

Nadja (02:20):

Sure. So, um, it's been a bit of an international one. I grew up in Hong Kong. That's where I was raised and I essentially spent the entirety of my childhood that until medical school pretty much and then came over here, studied in London, which was an amazing experience. And then ended up in sort of the east of England deanery, which is where I've been for the last two years. Um, working across a bunch of specialties as most junior doctors do. And unfortunately it was smack bang, um, in time with the beginning of the COVID pandemic. So it's been one hell of a journey, uh, not one that anyone could have predicted, but an amazing learning experience or real emotional roller coaster. And I wouldn't have changed it because I think we've all come a really long way.

Victoria (03:13):

Absolutely. So why did you choose England? Um, and do you have any intention of going back to Hong Kong? I know there's a lot sort of going on in general right now in Hong Kong, but, um, is that something that you look forward to, did you ever plan on staying there?

Nadja (03:31):

So really good question. And it's, to be honest, not one I'm entirely sure of the answer to, I think I've always dreamed of spending some time there again in the future. My family are all still there and that's, you know, a huge factor for me, but in terms of whether or not I will pursue my career future there, I'm not entirely sure yet it's um, yeah, as you know, a little bit turbulent at the moment, politically, obviously not as bad as it has been in some countries, but the future is not entirely such. And so it's difficult to predict where it's going to be in the next decade or two. I don't know where I'm going to be in the next decade or two I'm completely, open-minded, I'd love to spend some time that, but nothing's concrete. Fair enough.

Victoria (04:12):

And when you came to the UK, is it something that you always sort of planned on training in the UK?

Nadja (04:18):

I don't really know how it happened. I think I just fell into it. I was at boarding school for sort of the last few years of my middle school, middle school, high school experience. And that was in England and I was traveling between Hong Kong and England during that time. And I don't think I ever saw myself pursuing higher education in Hong Kong. There aren't that many universities to choose from medical education. Isn't exactly. Um, sort of, you know, that widespread, there's only a few select programs. And so I definitely, when I realized I wanted to do medicine thought, okay, UK is going to give me way more options. And, um, I think just sort of a better general overall, uh, education, if you could say that. Nice.

Victoria (05:01):

Um, and you mentioned COVID, obviously we both have been dealing with being away from family and training during COVID in the NHS, which has been, um, I think a make or break type situation for a lot of people. How do you think it affected you, and your training?

Nadja (05:21):

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think everybody will have suffered some sort of, you know, variation of post-traumatic stress and it's a spectrum, right? I think we've all suffered in our own way, whether that's been, you know, physically, emotionally, you know, being estranged from family, you know, losing your loved ones. It's been really tough. I've been very fortunate in that my family and friends have all been safe and healthy, but I think for me, you know, the way I, the way I sum it up to friends and family is it's kind of like you've been drafted into a that you didn't want to fight and as dramatic as it sounds and as proud as I am to have to have done it, it's just the reality. Right. You know, we are less than two years really into our journeys and being a doctor.

Nadja (06:11):

And the next thing, you know, we're being told, that's it, you need to come into work every day, face this virus, head on everyone else at home isolating, and you don't have a choice. You need to be there. You don't what little PPE we have and you just need to brave it and come into work every day. So obviously that was terrifying. And my entire support network was, you know, hundreds of miles away across the ocean in Hong Kong. So it was, it was very scary. Um, so I think it's definitely made me realize how incredible the NHS is. It really is one of a kind. And although it struggled, it, you know, saved the lives of as many as it could. I think I always knew in my heart of hearts, I was not going to go and pursue a traditional training route by the NHS, but the COVID experience definitely solidified that for me. I think it made me realize that at a time, when I think all of my colleagues, you know, we're really sort of excited to tell the grandchildren that they fought during the COVID panic pandemic. I just thought, I think I would have rather have been with family. And I think I would have rather been doing the things that I love most, and it wasn't that it wasn't saving lives in that moment as tragic as that is to say. So it just solidified that for me, that's really

Victoria (07:23):

Interesting. I had a similar but different experience. I mean, for me, definitely being away from family, um, was not great. I am quite used to being away from family, but it just was different. You know, it's just a completely different beast. And I agree with you. They really did, you know, Linus up in a room. And I remember, you know, senior, very, very senior people telling us you will lose colleagues and, you know, you will lose family members. And this is going to be a sensitive time. If your coworker says that they need help, they're really, they really need help because people are going to break and it really did feel like, um, a war zone. And I definitely wondered am I willing to lose my life for the NHS? And yeah. You know, that is for me, like, I don't know that I am.

Victoria (08:21):

Um, I think though that, yes, the NHS is incredibly amazing. I learned a lot about the economics of health and even looking at the choices in lockdown worldwide, the places where the repercussions were going to be astronomically, um, unimaginable for the economy is where we really saw significant lockdowns, the adding chest. Definitely wasn't going to handle sort of free reign like the American approach. And obviously that was an economic decision. And I really, really had a very much clear of that. And for me, although I really do appreciate and see all that the NHS does for patients. It's amazing to know that someone can come and go on life support, um, and not have to worry about a bill. Like that is an incredible feeling as a doctor, but at the same time, for me looking at the utilitarian approach to health care and what you are offered versus what you're not offered really opened my eyes in a way that I wasn't always comfortable with.

Victoria (09:29):

Um, and definitely as a trainee COVID for me made me realize I need to sort of get it together and make some moves to maybe transition out of the NHS as a doctor. I absolutely love the fact that I will be able to have these experiences to share with people that like, yeah, like all these people were losing high and like, you know, they were doing, I thought that was amazing and feel very much so like this Hollywood approach to medicine. But I think overall looking at how our training was changed and looking at other sort of, again, the S utilitarian approach made me not as enthusiastic.

Nadja (10:11):

I couldn't have said it better myself. And you said, I think essentially what a lot of us have been afraid to say, which is that we were not willing to lose our lives for the NHS. It's tragic, but it's true. And that was the stance that we, you know, absolutely were forced to take essentially. And you're so right about the utilitarian approach. That's not the approach that I want to take to healthcare and that's not how I ever saw myself providing care. But at the end of the day, as you said, it's economics and it's politics and resources. Absolutely. I find out, so what choice did they have? It was just uncomfortable. And it was uncomfortable to have to be the face of that. I have to explain that to patients and explain a moral stance that wasn't well, when economical stance, I guess you could say that wasn't necessarily your own, so I completely am with you on that. Yeah.

Victoria (10:59):

Yeah. I totally agree. And I think it goes back into what you were saying about the spectrum of PTSD, having those conversations for four months, eight months, however long is it takes a toll. And one thing that I've really grown to appreciate in my, um, rotation now in Amy is there's a lot of like debriefing and like, how do you feel about this? Take a minute. And I can't say that that was my experience for most of my training. And I think that would have been extremely beneficial during the height of COVID. Um, so I think those scars are definitely going to be with me for a long time, for the better, for the worst. I mean, our scars help us to become who we are and hopefully for the better it changes us for the better, which I think it will.

Nadja (11:45):

Absolutely. It's taught us so much, but that's interesting because I mean, I worked A&E literally in the Height, max height of the second wave, which was horrendous and we had none of that support. So is that something they introduced some feedback or

Victoria (12:00):

I don't know. I think I've noticed is it's usually after the death of a patient or breaking really bad news where they're like, do you need to debrief? Do you need to, um, you know, take a minute. It's, it's just something that I've noticed sort of casually. It's not like a formal announcement, but there are, um, some consultants who will ask a registrar or a junior, if you need a minute, take a minute. It's okay. Check in with them. Um, after the shift, like the support that I have seen in this rotation is I think second to none. I think it's excellent. I'm extremely impressed by it.

Nadja (12:38):

Good. I'm so glad you had that experience. I guess that shows they've really evolved.

Victoria (12:42):

Yeah. To be fair. I do think also when it's not as like, you know, we've seen the COVID at a tight where it's like back to back to back, you've just got really, really unwell people. Um, I think we almost enter a, like, uh, entered into a space of shock where it's just fight or flight and you don't even have the time to process things. And I'm sure, especially for them as well, being the most senior clinicians, there's, there's just no time. Like people are dying. People are unwell, people are being intubated and you've got to keep your head on straight. And I think even for them, it's difficult to process. Whereas now that COVID isn't as big of a problem as it was a few months ago, if something bad happens, you do have the time to have a physiological and like mental response to it. Whereas before I think everyone was kind of in survival mode, like we can't get too deep into this, otherwise we will literally drown.

Nadja (13:42):

Yeah, you're so right. And I remember coming home after my shifts and there was so many days and nights when I would just cry. It sounds pretty dramatic, but you don't press it at work. There's no sort of, um, facilitating of that processing whatsoever. So you're kind of left to just deal with it. And it comes out in the most unexpected ways, you know, whether it's your sleep pattern, your health, like your, your skin, your immune system, whatever it is, your relationships, everything around you is suffering because there's no healthy way to, to talk about it, to debrief. So yeah, I'm glad they've started doing that. Yeah.

Victoria (14:18):

I completely agree. And I had the same sort of thing and the, these are the things that led me to be like, you know, what, as nice as all of this is, it's probably not for me because if you don't have anyone to process your trauma with, um, like with me, I just come home to my four walls. Like that's not a sustainable way for me to live and who knows when the next pandemic is going to come, you know? And I think, you know, it really sort of helped to prioritize what was important to me in life in, and definitely in my career because as doctors we use so much of our time and our energy towards our work, and sometimes we don't have enough for ourselves. So I guess that leads me to my next question. Um, both of us have sort of non-traditional approaches to, um, medicine and life. Um, where are you now in your medical journey?

Nadja (15:23):

So, um, gosh, where to start, uh, I've always been somebody who, I guess I'd call myself a professional hobbyist. And I remember starting out my journey as a junior doctor, even at medical school and, you know, talk about my hobbies with people. And they would sort of just say, oh, I don't really understand how you, um, how you have time to do it all. But it wasn't about time. Cause they'd be throwing themselves into, you know, academics, research projects, you know, other internships. I was just using all of my time to essentially invest in anything that could have been more different to medicine. So I, you know, I loved sport and at university, um, I was competing in Olympic weight lifting. I loved that and then pouring my heart into a food blog, which I know we'll probably touch on a bit later. And it's always just been about investing heavily in my hobbies to keep me balanced and that's, what's done it for me.

Nadja (16:17):

And that's, what's allowed me to sort of be the doctor I am today. And I think it makes you, um, sort of contributes to your clinical practice in a really unique way and allows you to empathize on a different level with all sorts of different patients. But essentially I'm now at the stage where I would naturally have to choose a specialty pathway. And traditionally, as you may have mentioned, you do a T as a foundation training and then you pick whatever specialty role you want to apply for and you apply, it's a bit of a lottery, the odds. Aren't great. If you're lucky you get a job, if you're lucky you take a year out and you try again. So I actively decided to not, uh, apply for a training post. And initially I was going to just take a year out and I use that time to reconnect with myself after COVID reconnect with my family who I now haven't seen for almost two years because of travel restrictions and just figure out really what made me tick because I need the NHS, wasn't it.

Nadja (17:13):

I knew what I was passionate about and I couldn't see myself being able to sort of apply all of this passion inside me in a traditional training route. So on a whim, on an on-call, um, I'd actually apply for a job in a sort of preventative healthcare med company, um, which is looking at sort of optimizing health care over sick care and reducing the burden on the NHS that way, but also just pouring my heart into my food blog, which is my little passion project. Um, keeps me saying it definitely saved me during and, and I'm loving it. Just seeing where it goes, see what happens.

Victoria (17:54):

I love your food blog. It is gorgeous. Like just the aesthetics of it all. I mean, I'm far too lazy to actually try any recipes. I absolutely love looking at it. It's just like, I feel like it should be framed like stock photos. You've you've mentioned a lot of things you've mentioned sort of that you're, you're going towards the med tech route, but before we get there, I do want to talk about the professional hobbyist of it all. I am also a professional hobbyist. Um, I just feel like, you know, that we have so many interests and we're not going to be experts at everything, but it's good to explore things and see things outside of medicine. And I think in medicine, we smell very often, not us, but very often people are very like limited in their outlook in their perspective, which is so interesting because we meet so many different kinds of people with all sorts of different backgrounds, which affects their health. And we are asked to manage it, but so often medics tend to just know, you know, like the medical things, you know what I mean? They don't necessarily into the vastness of this world. So what made you sort of explore outside of the science world?

Nadja (19:24):

I think I always, um, struggled at the beginning. I, I didn't really know what I wanted to do cause I enjoyed all the subjects at school. I loved literature, I loved the arts. Um, and I did the international baccalaureate, which means that you can take quite a few subjects to a high level as I'm sure you know, which is great. So if you're somebody who's kind of like a Jack of all trades, but master of none, it's ideal because you get to play, um, you sort of keep that freedom and that room to experiment really. So I loved, as I said, the arts, I loved English, but I love science. And I think we all fall into medicine for similar reasons. We want to help people. It's a meaningful career and we love science, but I always told myself, okay, I'll just keep everything else on the back burner.

Nadja (20:09):

And on top of that, I just love food. I always have, I've grown up in a foodie family, um, sort of a foodie, a foodie country can say Hong Kong is a food hub. And I always, um, used to sort of experiment with recipes and cooking from quite young age. And so at medical school, I really needed a creative outlet. I was really enjoying photography at the time. Um, and I thought, okay, what if I can combine my passion for sort of recipe development and photography and make a food blog. And this is way before, you know, Instagram was massive or Instagram really even existed. So it was very innocent at the time. And it was just that it was a platform for me to combine my love for sort of health, healthy eating and nutrition with more creative side, which was food, blogging, food, styling, and photography.

Nadja (21:06):

So the blog was born and essentially I worked on it kind of loosely for a couple of years. And then it had to take a major backseat because of finals and then gearing up to sort of start training. So it literally collected dust for five years, which is a really long time. And a lot has changed, um, in that space in terms of Instagram and the social media world and how artists portray their work online. And then in the height of the second wave of the pandemic, it was dark. It was February. I was feeling really low about everything. I thought that's it, I've got a bit of time. I'm just going to pour my heart into reviving this because it brings me so much joy and I did. And I honestly think it's what kept me sane through that last part of my A&E placement during COVID.

Victoria (21:57):

This year, Tokyo was the stage for the delayed 2020 Olympics athletes gathered from around the world, competing in various sports that they've dedicated their lives to. Some of the sports are traditional like basketball or soccer and even swimming. However, there are a few that are a little less known, like speed walking. I have a few Olympic sports that I would like to recommend for the next round of the Olympics. First up convincing the surgeons to accept a referral when they aren't going to immediately operates on the patient next, getting home on time after a long on call, when you've made really important plans, next finding scrubs that don't vary between three different sizes despite being labeled the size that you usually wear next presenting a patient to a notoriously challenging Sr without interruption or correction before you finish your statement or without you needing to suppress the urge to roll your eyes. And for the last truly Herculean Olympic contender, I nominate overcoming imposter syndrome and accepting that you are where you are simply because you are qualified.

Victoria (23:19):

First of all, I didn't realize, I don't know if I needed IB. I did IB as well. All like make sense. I just feel like IB was one of those things that I did in high school, because I was like, right. It sounds cool. It sounds international, which is my vibe. I think I'm really changed or shaped many ways. My outlook of things like even just you think of like the theory of knowledge course and just like the ways in which you're taught to think critically at a very young age, I think are so imperative. And I don't think you really get that another thing. So I think it makes a lot of sense. Things are clicking now that I know that you're an Ivy girl,

Nadja (24:03):

Likewise, I mean, reflection is an integral part of the curriculum. Theory of knowledge teaches you to critically evaluate, you know, anything that's put in front of you. And I think traditional more traditional A-level type courses don't have that built in. And so it was quite foreign for people when suddenly they have to do it for their junior doctor portfolio, their GP portfolio. Whereas I think it was very much the bread and butter of what we did.

Victoria (24:28):

I love that. Um, uh, and I think I agree with you with, um, sort of like, so I have many passion projects. This podcast is one. I have a like clothing, one called Amissa's closet, and I do tend to get into it during periods of stress, which might be a little bit of a defense mechanism if I'm being honest. But I think, um, this was also born in COVID when we were just working and like, I mean, we've spoken about this before, but it just felt like we were vessels for work and nothing else. And for people who are more creative or like, you know, a little bit more, um, open to other things, it just isn't enough. You know, and I needed to find a way that still like feeds my sort of type a personality and goal productive, you know, productive goal oriented personality and come up with them that, you know, allowed me to express myself.

Victoria (25:29):

And that was a little bit different. I mean, this is obviously still a bit related to medicine, but it's more looking at the humans behind the, you know, white coat or behind the stethoscope. And, um, yeah, I think we need these sorts of things as lifelines because we are more than just decision makers or decision executor's, you know, and I think when you're living and breathing and I can understand now that I'm doing A&E, how you must have felt during COVID it's an all encompassing world. Like the rota is insane. Um, there are a lot of people that you see a lot of things that are going to be on your mind, did you make the right decision? And it's very hard to leave that world and then enter into like the real world. Um, I find like posts, you know, when I'm doing normal days, it's just weird. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm at work. When not like normal people are working evenings, like, what is this? And you forget that there's like a whole world outside of the hospital. So I just feel like hobbies are the bare minimum of what should be required for doctors.

Nadja (26:43):

Could not agree more.

Nadja (26:46):

And what you said about being a vessel that really resonated with me, someone once said you can't be a person and a doctor. And I remember just thinking, oh my goodness, is that the future that I've signed up for? You know, I don't want to be that. That's not me. And I think as you said, having this whole other world, that's what keeps you whole, and that's what keeps you saying. And I was determined to kind of prove that statement wrong. So you have, and you are like,

Victoria (27:16):

You know, we're trying, we're trying. And I think it's so important I think, and everyone should really, I remember one of my friends from like a summer course that I did, she was in residency when I was in med school and she was exhausted because she's like in America, she's working 80 hour weeks and she still would try and find time to go out and go for dinner and go to programs and all these things. And I was like, how do you have the energy for this, the desire to do anything. And especially now that we're working, it's even more unfathomable. We work 40 hours sometimes more, but I can't imagine working consistently 80 hours and thinking like, let's do something. And she was like, the thing is, if you let it residency and medicine will turn you into a robot and you have to actively fight against that. Um, and I'm glad that I got that message because I think, um, it's some, she's someone that I admire and that I look up to. And so when she said that, I was like, right, when I go into my training, I'm going to make sure that I carve out time to be a normal person, you know, or more than doctors.

Nadja (28:21):

You swim against the current by opting for that life. You go with the current, if you just fall into the flow of things, if you're a cog in the machine, you're just another number. That's the easy path. What's not easy is carving out the time for yourself. Being on top of your time management and actually taking the time to reflect on what your needs are. You know, I think that the difference between socializing for me anyway, COVID meant socializing. Wasn't really an option and I'm naturally an introvert. So I wouldn't consider myself the kind of person who'd be out every week, you know, partying. Like that's not how I recharge. And for me to recharge, I needed to use the creative part of my brain. And I'm sure you can relate to that. That's what allowed me to go into my next shift, feeling refreshed, feeling like I engaged with the outside world a bit, otherwise you just eat, sleep. What could repeat? And that's the easy option. It is. It is difficult to carve out that time for yourself. Absolutely.

Victoria (29:16):

I love that. What did you say, swim against the current swim with the current,

Nadja (29:24):

Easier to go with the current and be a cog in the machine. Yeah. It's way harder to swim against that and kind of carve another life out for yourself. Absolutely. I completely cheesy. No,

Victoria (29:34):

I think it's, I think it's so, so, so important. And I think you said it perfectly, so you've mentioned that you're going to work in med tech. Um, do you see yourself doing that in like the long-term? Do you think that this is where you're going to be moving your career towards? Do you have any other sort of things that you're hoping to get out of the next, I don't know, 15, 20 years of your career and professional life

Nadja (30:04):

Is a huge question. Honestly, I didn't think these questions, what kind of it has made me realize is that I do not get fulfillment from sick care and I don't get fulfillment from sort of just having a very transient, fleeting effect on someone's life. I want to be making positive changes on a global scale that people, you know, incorporate into their, into their daily, into their daily lives, into their health behaviors. And that's why I initially pursued global health for my, for my BSC my intercolated BSc it's that's what really makes me happy is when you've had a conversation with a patient, with a patient and you've know you've done something to impact their life for good, not just in that moment, you're not just giving them a pill to make it go away. And that's, what's really drawn me to medtech I personally, I don't believe that there's any way we're going to be able to sort of globally or even nationally change health behavior and health literacy and health understanding without the use of tech and innovation. It's, there's just no way. And that is the future. And I know that also sounds quite cheesy, but my passion for sort of the creative arts, my passion for food wellness and medicine, there is no space that combines those more perfectly than the space of sort of digital medicine and med tech in my mind.

Victoria (31:30):

Goodness gracious, like round of applause. That is, and it's true. I'm very interested in telemedicine, um, and sort of looking at technology and medicine in that capacity. And I think you're absolutely right. Like I also did global health and I just like my favorite global health story is when I was doing my masters in 2011, literally in the like most remote village, they didn't have consistent running water. Um, we definitely didn't have consistent power and someone had whatever phone it must have been. I don't know if it was an old iPhone or like a Blackberry or Samsung, whatever was popular back then phone and was like, and this is someone who probably doesn't speak English at all. And they were singing this little boy was singing, Justin Bieber, baby, baby, baby, whatever that song was. And I was like, that was in Ghana. Like, am I, ain't got it right now?

Victoria (32:30):

How does he even know Justin Bieber is? And I just felt like, you know what? This is the future. Like this guy doesn't have consistent electricity, cannot speak English. Most likely doesn't have a lot of the basic things that we all take for granted. And he's singing Justin Bieber in the middle of, uh, like November day. That's crazy from a cell phone, you know, like, and that's when you see the power of technology and having that understanding that someone might not have a computer or even, um, a bank account, but they have a cell phone. Like what with that medically is I think a space to be looking for and sort of working, working towards, because I think we can really, change the world you know, it's corny, but it's true,

Nadja (33:22):

I agree with you. I mean, there's, there's health literacy and there's understanding your health, right? And I think the minute you give people access to those gems, you've unlocked an entire world. And the reason there's so much chronic diseases because people don't have the education for starters and they don't feel like they're empowered to do anything about it. So what's going to be the most accessible and the most widespread tool we have. Yeah,

Victoria (33:50):

Absolutely. I mean, we've all seen it with COVID and WhatsApp, conspiracies, like, you know, someone who's sitting in their basement making up random apple cider vinegar, lemon, ginger, and then look at the sky three times and you're not, you know, like, and so what if we empower the people who actually have the professional knowledge and expertise to, to share the right information and get it in front of the right people, it can change the world. But, um, anyway, um, okay. So I will end with just a couple of questions we've spoken about your interest and your food blog. Um, and then we've also spoken about this transition that you're in right now, what meal would you make, um, for someone that you're, that you're introducing into your life? Um, the meals goal is to tell that person about who you are without really having to explain it. Although you're going to explain it to us, what meal would it be and

Nadja (34:56):

Why? I love this question. I think it's a great question. And one, I wish I'd thought about a little bit harder. I would have to be a meal that encompasses both where I've come from and where I'm going and having grown up in an ice like Hong Kong, which is obviously extremely multicultural, but also having Korean heritage myself. It would probably be a Korean male because I grew up very much on Asian food. Um, and my grandma's Korean cooking was definitely, you know, the biggest treat. It was the most delicious thing at the time. And there's this dish, um, called bulgogi, which is essentially a, um, like a, uh, a sirloin cut of beef. That's pounded quite thin and flat and marinated in soy sauce and ginger, garlic, sugar, all these delicious things. And you make it into something called Psalms, which are essentially lettuce wraps.

Nadja (35:51):

And she would make this incredible spread and you'd have this crisp iceberg lettuce wrap, this kind of sweet and salty bulgogi really tend to be Korean rice and then tons of different pickled vegetables and Korean salads, like a cucumber and your radish and your spinach. And it was just an explosion of flavor and texture. So delicious, even though I didn't really eat much red meat these days, it would probably have to be that because yeah, makes, um, a reference to my cultural roots, but also like me a little bit of everything. Can I really make up her mind dabbling and all sorts of things. Yeah. Sweet, but also a little bit salty.

Victoria (36:36):

Oh my gosh, I am drooling. And I just feel like, you know, this is a great example of why everyone needs to follow your blog and your Instagram, even the way you've just described that in words, like, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be tasting, but I know that I need it, like rather, and that is how your photos look, how your descriptions are. Everyone just needs to follow. And, um, what are, do you do orders and things as well for your blog?

Nadja (37:06):

So occasionally, um, I've been doing them for some people, but I don't have a industrial sized kitchen. So it's very much more scale. I can absolutely do them. Um, if you get in touch, I would love to bake for you.

Victoria (37:18):

So can you, um, tell everyone where to find you on social media so that they can obsess over your photos and your blog? Like I do.

Nadja (37:27):

It was so sweet. I still have to bake for you. I'm very aware of that. Um, so you can find me on Instagram @madebynadja that's Nadia with the J um, and the website is currently undergoing a domain change, but it's currently www.mouthovermatter.co.uk. And that's where all the recipes are. But follow me on Instagram for updates, pictures, recipes, and tips,

Victoria (37:51):

Love, love, love. Is there anything else that you want to share with people about sort of your journey and the duality of medicine and life and the non-traditional path?

Nadja (38:06):

I think what I'd say is to anybody out there that is, you know, nervous about embracing their hobbies or embracing the duality, I just say, go for it. I think there's a real shortage of role models out there who have pursued the non-traditional route had definitely, it was for me, everyone goes into management consultants, your pharmaceuticals and there's no, there's no in-between. Um, so I would just say, you know, be open-minded, there's no rush looking at you, Victoria, you've taken the most amazing and non-traditional route, and there's just so much out there. You'd be selling yourself short. If you didn't go out and taste it and you'll regret it, if you don't. So take your time, steer your hobbies, keep an open mind,

Victoria (38:51):

Love it, and could not agree more. Thank you so much for doing this interview and taking the time out of your very busy schedule. Um, I really appreciate it. Yeah. I think there were a lot of gems in there.

Nadja (39:03):

Thank you so much for having me. It's been such a treat.

Victoria (39:08):

I hope if you enjoyed this week's episode with Nadja, as we talked about the duality of being a professional hobbyist and being a doctor, and then looking at alternative paths in medicine, I think very often, we don't see, and we don't hear about these different paths in medicine. And I think it's important for doctors and people interested in medicine to know that there's more than one way to help people. If you're enjoying the season, please share subscribe, rate, and review and let us know what you're enjoying about the season. We really love hearing your feedback. I'm happy to announce that some of our merchandise is going to be available starting this Friday. So be sure to follow us on Twitter and on Instagram for more information, make sure you're following Nadja on Instagram at made by Nadja, spelled with a J we'll include her in our show notes and on our tags on Instagram. See you on our next shift.

Guest: Dr. Nadja Auerbach, creator of @madebyNadja
Host: Dr. Victoria Kyerematen

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